Just in time, because tomorrow I'm attending a YPU debate where the resolved is "Virtue is the Object of Education." Wonder what "anti-education" would say about that?
Btw, Tiana, I should add that you are now contractually obligated to post of report of this debate and your view of the matter, especially since, well, we'd all like to know the answer. Much depends on it. (And my archness should not be mistaken for silliness. Well, maybe a little). Anyways, if your thoughts are too long, send them to me, and I'll include it in the substack. Really. I know you take these questions seriously. Is virtue the object of education?
If that's the case, which would be great, just why are so many classes so competitive unnecessarily? How many classes then are besides the point given that they play no role in fostering virtue.
And do we really to get educated to be virtuous? I mean, I hope not....
Let me paste my debate notes from tonight! I'll also send you my initial and final thoughts on the topic.
• We should think about moral education like scientific education! We teach the virtues and how to get there! Teaching moral arguments is like teaching science. Just teach a rough framework. It all comes down to “what reason do I have to do this, believe that, etc”
• Rousseau’s Emile, raising a genius child: through nature, through formal instruction, and other things—education comes in all forms. In America, we aren’t doing so hot! We can’t compete with the Chinese and Indians. What we need is good civics, solid education, we need to teach that ideas have consequences, and we need to teach unity (Jan 6 events would not have happened)
• How are we going to teach the same kind of virtues and moral situations?
• You can’t teach kids values because you don’t know those values are right. People will disagree on values systems.
• Do people actually pay any attention to mission statements and really nebulous values like kindness, respect, open discourse, excellence? Nope. Just saying “we need general virtues-teaching” doesn’t change anything
• Idea of needing proper punishment in schools, idea of various religions being the basis of value systems so there are considerations for separation of church and state
• Education teaches successful mindsets to produce successful minds from the lower class, and they can escape poverty. So we’ve got to educate them into becoming successful rich people. It’s not critical to teach virtue.
• We need more recess! And do away with allowances. And make kids go to church because they need to learn humility, sacrificial love, and service to others
• Do people really change when they read philosophy? We need to pay more attention to the people who are occupying those institutions. Pure intellect does not produce the optimal outcome. Do it in a non-intellectual way: being shown virtuous examples—a teacher being a role model in a student’s life, being a guide, and direct them to the good. We need a comprehensive system for this—introduce some non-controversial virtues at the outset
• Raise our children with basic life skills—how to cook, how to work out—and bullying builds character!
• We can’t help but teach controversial virtues, but overall they are good—virtues for the majority, and if you have an alternative virtue system, you can go to a different school
• Education reinforces social hierarchy for elites. IQ does not reflect people’s ability to have real relationships—”EQ”-like cultivation is necessarily for a political life. Secular education is a form of repentance for abandoning religion. Testing is highly useful.
A wonderful beginning! Thank you Herr Doctor Professor!
Thank you! The check is in the mail, young Werther!
Just in time, because tomorrow I'm attending a YPU debate where the resolved is "Virtue is the Object of Education." Wonder what "anti-education" would say about that?
Btw, Tiana, I should add that you are now contractually obligated to post of report of this debate and your view of the matter, especially since, well, we'd all like to know the answer. Much depends on it. (And my archness should not be mistaken for silliness. Well, maybe a little). Anyways, if your thoughts are too long, send them to me, and I'll include it in the substack. Really. I know you take these questions seriously. Is virtue the object of education?
If that's the case, which would be great, just why are so many classes so competitive unnecessarily? How many classes then are besides the point given that they play no role in fostering virtue.
And do we really to get educated to be virtuous? I mean, I hope not....
Let me paste my debate notes from tonight! I'll also send you my initial and final thoughts on the topic.
• We should think about moral education like scientific education! We teach the virtues and how to get there! Teaching moral arguments is like teaching science. Just teach a rough framework. It all comes down to “what reason do I have to do this, believe that, etc”
• Rousseau’s Emile, raising a genius child: through nature, through formal instruction, and other things—education comes in all forms. In America, we aren’t doing so hot! We can’t compete with the Chinese and Indians. What we need is good civics, solid education, we need to teach that ideas have consequences, and we need to teach unity (Jan 6 events would not have happened)
• How are we going to teach the same kind of virtues and moral situations?
• You can’t teach kids values because you don’t know those values are right. People will disagree on values systems.
• Do people actually pay any attention to mission statements and really nebulous values like kindness, respect, open discourse, excellence? Nope. Just saying “we need general virtues-teaching” doesn’t change anything
• Idea of needing proper punishment in schools, idea of various religions being the basis of value systems so there are considerations for separation of church and state
• Education teaches successful mindsets to produce successful minds from the lower class, and they can escape poverty. So we’ve got to educate them into becoming successful rich people. It’s not critical to teach virtue.
• We need more recess! And do away with allowances. And make kids go to church because they need to learn humility, sacrificial love, and service to others
• Do people really change when they read philosophy? We need to pay more attention to the people who are occupying those institutions. Pure intellect does not produce the optimal outcome. Do it in a non-intellectual way: being shown virtuous examples—a teacher being a role model in a student’s life, being a guide, and direct them to the good. We need a comprehensive system for this—introduce some non-controversial virtues at the outset
• Raise our children with basic life skills—how to cook, how to work out—and bullying builds character!
• We can’t help but teach controversial virtues, but overall they are good—virtues for the majority, and if you have an alternative virtue system, you can go to a different school
• Education reinforces social hierarchy for elites. IQ does not reflect people’s ability to have real relationships—”EQ”-like cultivation is necessarily for a political life. Secular education is a form of repentance for abandoning religion. Testing is highly useful.